Unless the past injustices harmed you...you don't need retribution for anything. I was not even a middle class kid, more like bottom rung poor white kid in Kentucky. I haven't lived in Kentucky in 25 years. I have never been on public aid as an adult and my children have no idea what foodstamps or even wic is...I vowed to never go back..I have managed to do just that. I have a college degree, with no student loans..I worked my butt off for it. You want it, you will find a way to do it. I (literal I) keep handing stuff to you...you don't know the value of what you have. There is no reason to ever need to know what race anyone is. If you want a world that is free from color, it has to start with you.
The 6-2 decision upheld a voter-approved change to the Michigan Constitution that forbids the state's public colleges to take race into account. That change was indeed up to the voters, the ruling said, over one justice's impassioned dissent that accused the court of simply wanting to wish away inequality. More: bigstory.ap.org.
I don't want a world free from color. That's part of what makes us individuals. And it makes it easier to pick out terrorists. Any institution (school, business, anything) should be able and allowed to do anything they want based on any criteria they want. If people don't like it they can avoid that institution. If an institution wants assistance from the government to run then they have to abide by rules and regulations the government sets so they agree to them. But if any institution is privately funded and run then they should not have to abide by any rules made up by anybody but themselves.
Race has ongoing salience. It continues to affect the opportunity structure. To say that colleges should be deliberately blind to do that is to say that they should be blind to discrimination, to stereotype threat, to what it is like to grow up and face daily dehumanization.
The effect of the policies should not be massive and should be defensible by statistics and means-tested efforts. And it should be accompanied by class-based affirmative action. But race should be considered directly as a variable.
"race" is an antiquated idea from the 17C that should not be used in this context. Instead, ethnicity, or even demographic is a more relevent term.
I can not talk from an American perspective, but in Australia Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islanders (our native peoples) have reduced requirements for school and university entry. I think this is an important step is righting some past wrongs and breaking some vicious cycles which once broken benefit not only their communities but society in large.
When European colonists came to Australia, they changed the fabric of Aboriginal society. Many Aboriginies found it difficult to adapt to these drastic changes, and with the introduction of alcohol the effect on their society and culture were devestating, much of which is pronounced to this day. Granting more Aboriginal students access to higher education does much to break cycles of abuse which have held them back as a community. This also provides role models for the next generation, and so has a cumulative and positive effect.
Some may argue that this is 'white guilt', and that is arguable to an extent, but semantic arguments rarely solve problems; education has historically been far better at this.
I believe America has a similar history with native Americans, and i believe it is just as important there to improve communal esteem in those populations. Although i havn't read the external link, and am otherwise uninformed of the situation, the inability to determine ethnicity may negatively effect those who need it most.
In America, affirmative action isn't really targeted at Native American students at all, and they're probably barely affected by AA because of their tiny numbers and their very low college enrollment. It's aimed at black students primarily.
From my knowledge of American society, many black communities would benefit from more lawyers, doctors, business managers, and role models. I'm not suggesting white communities don't deserve representation at universities, but as a utilitarian i can see greater benefit to society as a whole in offering easier paths to education to those who have historically been repressed to these benefits.
It's a tricky situation, i don't believe black people (or Aborigibies or natice Americans or white folks Latinos or anyone for that matter) inheritly need assistance getting into educational institutions, but my opinion is that if the choice is between a black kid from the projects who never knew her father and whos mother is a junkie, and a white kid whos father owns a successful consulting firm and whos mother runs a small local chain of florists, i would favour the black kid for the spot. If the white kid is from a trailer park and his parents are methheads, and the black kids two mums are in advertising and law, i would want the spot to the white kid.
Of course, that is so long as the less fortunate in the example has shown that an education is what they want, and that they are willing to work for it. If they are waiting for or expecting a handout then my argument is invalid.
What about poor white people? Don't you think poor white communities in Appalachia could benefit from more doctors and other role models? Why are poor black communities more deserving of poor white communities? Anyone who wants to treat these groups differently is a racist, by definition.
You even mention this with your comment about the white kid from the trailer part. But Affirmative Action doesn't allow this distinction. Under AA, the black kid that lives a life of privilege with wealthy parents will get priority over the poor white kid who lives in a dilapidated trailer and has holes in his shoes. And that's wrong, and why race-based admissions should be banned.
If they want to make parental wealth a factor in admissions, that's fine with me.
In Australia, Aboriginies and Torres Strait Islanders get roughly 10 marks off their university entry requirements, and significant discounts to their fees. We have a HECS program that allows you to learn now, pay later, but if your parental earnings are too significant you become ineligable. It has been a pretty good system.
I gave my opinion based on the proposed question, not the external link (i'm new here, sorry if that is not the general convention). To my knowledge, affirmative action is a terrible idea, to an outsider it seems to suggest that the official stance is that black people can't get jobs without the valiant grace of ever generous whitey, although, i can also see it preventing racism in the hiring process which i am sure occurs in some cases. It's a double edge sword that I'm glad my country has managed to avoid (although, we have plenty of other issues to keep us occupied)
In my original post, i mentioned that perhaps demographic is a better term, after this dialogue i am now more convinced that demographic is more appropriate, ethnicity should still apply with native Americans, although i understand their plight less than the Aboriginies, and so i could be misjudging that.
The Native Americans in this country are a very, very small minority, so their plight is probably rather different than the Aborigines. The NAs also are doing a little better these days thanks to the proliferation of casinos on their reservations; they're really profiting a lot from those. If they had Affirmative Action policies which only favored NAs, I doubt too many people would complain that much, because the numbers are just so small that you won't have many instances of someone complaining they were denied admission because of a Native American.
I think you're basically right about affirmative action's problems.
Love you liberals when it comes to race. Fact there are more poor whites than poor blacks or Poor Latino in America. Race should never be a factor in anything we do. I have worked in places where equal race facts who applied (affirmative action) what you end up with is those in charge to be incompetent. A general reduction in the effectiveness of the organization and its effect in the community. To say you have to have special treatment indicates your to stupid to make it on your own.
In fact, on applications it should be illegal for the school to even ask what your race is. No discrimination should be allowed.
We need Affirmative Action to make up for past injustices; also it would be part of restitution.
Fine, but we cannot mandate, especially at the level of the Supreme Court, that racial profiling be protected.
I strongly favor support for disadvantaged families, and including a balanced admissions population in state and private schools. We should not mandate that the association between disadvantage and demographics is based on race.
A correct law would be more impartial to the definition of inequality, which would also fairly direct such funds to black families in need, rather than black families that have achieved socioeconomic success, but regardless drawn funds from support-pools designated to reverse social injustice.
No we don't, we didn't give affirmative action to the Irish. Irish were sold into slavery in US by the British. And they seem to have recovered without any Affirmative Action.
I am a minority, who refused to register to become an official minority, I'm Native American, as well as a mix of other races. My ancestors were slaughtered in ways and numbers that would give you nightmares. Affirmative action is a way of saying "You poor person, we know you can't make it on your own, here's a cookie." It tells a person they are second class and they are not as good as this other person, and that they can't do it on their own.
I find affirmative action distasteful, and condescending, it also cheapen all people of that race, because if they do make it on their own, they are painted with the affirmative action brush. In the back of people's mind the little voice that says "They are only here because of affirmative action, not because they worked for it."
Affirmative Action should have never been started, you should stand on your abilities.. Schools shouldn't discriminant in anyway (affirmative action is discrimination but it discriminates against the "right" people that is someone else), they should simply say those with this GPA or have scored x on the entrance exam will be accepted those how didn't won't. Simple.
Same with business, why should someone by the color of their skin or what sex they were born, be given an extra edge over someone else?
The first rule everyone should learn is life isn't fair. Some people will do better than you, some people may hate you, but most people won't care one way or another. You might not get into the school of your choice, tough, deal with it prove the hater wrong, but I don't need or want affirmative action.
If I were to say "yes, race should be legally allowed as a factor in college admissions" and then go on to say "and it should only be the white race that has the advantage"...
What do you think would happen?
Maybe someone would think that's unfair? Maybe?
Sure it should be allowed. No one should be interested to go to such college though.