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88
User voted No.
8 votes
Jun 7, 2015

No!

Mental illness is far too broad of a term. There is a wide variety of mental illnesses, and with many of those, people suffering from those symptoms are no threat to others. It is unfair to judge such a wide range of people based on a few, especially when most people have very little understanding of mental illness. It's like saying every black person is prone to commit crime. How about some examples?

Should someone with OCD be prevented from owning a gun?
When their mental illness causes them to count their steps and wash their hands three times? Does that make them a threat?

What about someone with social anxiety?
Should someone who is unable to be out in a crowd be prevented from owning a gun? Should the fact they can't shop in a mall or crowded store, that they can't go to a ball game or theater on opening day mean they don't deserve to have a gun?

How about someone with an eating disorder? Or sexual dysfunction? What about if they have their problem under control with medication? Should a diagnosis prevent them from being able to protect themselves?
 
 
Last one. (Possibly most important one)
What about someone who has mental illness as a result of abuse, and the reason they want a gun is because they are scared to death or what will happen if their abuser finds them again? Should someone be prevented from owning a gun because of what someone did to them, someone they may need to protect themselves from in the future?
 
 
There has been a great deal of research showing how abuse, especially child abuse, can prime the brain for mental illness later in life, most notably anxiety disorders and depression. Dissociation, borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, eating disorders and more can all be caused partially or entirely by abuse and not one of them makes a person a danger to others.

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100
User voted Yes.
main reply
1 vote,
Nov 9, 2015

The question didn't ask "do you support bans on guns for the mentally ill?" It said "do you support laws preventing people with mental illness from purchasing guns?" The implication of legislation in the question indicates that it wouldn't be a broad application. Even broadly written hypothetical laws in this situation would obviously have a reasonable degree of specificity. If you say "no" to a hypothetical set of laws because of an assumption that it would include language that is obviously ridiculously broad, then, reasonably, you can never support any hypothetical set of laws.

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100
User voted No.
1 vote,
Nov 21, 2015

You obviously have little understanding of the problem in general. People very frequently speak of mental illness is ridiculously broad terms, and mental illness is often written about the same way. It's far from impossible that laws of such a nature would lack the kind of specificity necessary to make it fair and agreeable.

In fact, how people tend to act about mental illness has reached a point where people will deny the possibility they have a potentially serious problem, and thus never get treatment, simply because of the way the media and general public acts and talks about mental illness.

Example: If I were to mention knowing people with schizophrenia, many people would immediately assume that whoever I'm talking about must be a danger to others. Heck, a lot of people wouldn't even actually know what it is. It shocks me how many people mistake schizophrenia for dis-associative identity disorder (multiple personality disorder). And very, very few people with either of those mental illnesses are actually in any way a threat to others. One of the people I know with schizophrenia has it manifest in hyper-religious behavior. Some of her symptoms? She hears the 'voice of God' (and occasionally others); she thinks that everything written in the bible must be true. This includes the Earth being flat. No evidence to the contrary will ever convince her.

Schizophrenia, which many people assume makes people dangerous, is primarily defined by a lack of grasp on reality. The most common symptom is hallucinations, with auditory hallucinations by far being the most common. Does hearing the voice of God, thinking the world is flat, that vaccinations are dangerous, and similar things mean this person is likely to hurt someone? No. The closest thing she has to dangerous behavior is trying to prevent her son from getting vaccinations and self medicating with alcohol (but never driving if she's had even a sip).

Aside from that, frequently when someone is diagnosed as being a threat to others due to mental illness, they are placed in special care, be it with home aid or in a hospital. The people who do have a mental illness that makes them a threat and aren't in special care are primarily those that are un-diagnosed, and lacking a diagnosis means the law wouldn't affect them anyway.

So aside from making it difficult for people diagnosed with greatly misunderstood illnesses to protect themselves, how much good would such a law do?

Very little gun violence has ever been tied to mental illness, and even less frequently has it been tied to previously diagnosed and treated mental illness. And what of the few cases of gun violence involving people actually having a diagnosis? Quite a few of them are abuse victims defending themselves. The stories of abuse victims don't always say anything about mental illness... but dig a little deeper and a great many of them were currently getting treatment.

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0
User voted Yes.
0 votes,
Nov 21, 2015

You make a good point, so I concede. But let me pose to you a revised version of the question: Do you support laws to prevent people with mental illness that, in the view of mental professionals, have potentially violent tendencies from purchasing guns? This hypothetical law would restrict an individual who is mentally ill from buying guns if a healthcare professional deems them to have violent tendencies, but would not pose any restrictions if a healthcare professional has not been consulted, or if the healthcare professional believes there is no reason to enforce any restrictions. Therefore, these restrictions would only apply to those who've been explicitly identified as potentially violent. It would not apply to the vast majority of the mentally ill who pose no danger to themselves or others. and it would not have a "guilty before proven innocent" attitude towards those who have not undergone treatment. In my view, this solves for all problems above. The vast majority of the mentally ill could still purchase weapons for self-defense purposes, and would only restrict a small number of people who have been proven to be a possible threat, and obviously should not be allowed to own a deadly weapon. So it would affect a very small group of people, as you point out. Those who are both undergoing treatment and are potentially violent. Would you support this hypothetical law, and if not, what would have to change for you to support it?

Keep in mind that when I discuss this hypothetical, it is in a sort of "perfect world" scenario. Disregard passage, cost, and implementation; I just want to know what you think of the underlying idea.

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0
User voted No.
0 votes,
Nov 25, 2015

The underlying idea isn't necessarily bad. If it was tied to a professional declaring a specific individual a threat, that would be completely understandable. The problem lies in how such a law would likely be implemented. People would be more inclined to throw out a list of general diagnoses as being who to restrict. What may be seen as the 'easier' way, rather than the right way.

If such a law were enacted, I would not be surprised if they tried putting 'Bipolar Disorder', which I have, on a list of illnesses that mean someone should not be allowed a gun. Because some bipolars, when untreated, have suicidal tendencies. And there is one rare variation on it that can include aggressive tendencies. But that variation is the exception to the rule, and most who are diagnosed are under sufficient treatment to no longer have suicidal tendencies.

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0
User voted Yes.
0 votes,
Nov 29, 2015

So, now I'm just curious, do you think such a law could be effectively implemented now or in the future, or will there always be a significant danger of this "easier way rather than the right way" taking effect?

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100
User voted No.
2 votes
Oct 13, 2015

It really depends on what you mean by mental illness. The term is much broader than I think the person asking the question realizes.

It is already against the law in most states for someone with a history of violence to purchase a gun (i.e. background checks are mandatory in many states). What qualifies as a history of violence does vary from state to state but generally if a person has severe mental illness to the point that they have a criminal record or have been actually committed then they probably can not purchase a firearm.

Another point which governing body would be enacting these suggested laws? The American national government has some pretty serious restrictions on what it is allowed to do regarding individual gun ownership but the American states have much greater authority to pass restrictions. So if the law was being debated in a state legislature and it was reasonable then I might support it but if it was being debated on the American national level I would oppose it - even if it was a good law - b/c the American national government simply lacks the authority to legislate on this matter absent an Amendment to our constitution.

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100
2 votes
Nov 23, 2015

In narrow contexts, yes.

The mere fact of a mental illness obviously should not bar someone with no history of violence from owning a gun.

However, in cases where a person has a mental illness that makes them immediately dangerous, such as psychopathy, sadism, etc., perhaps that should be taken into account. I'd say that it should still not be enough to actually on its own bar ownership, but perhaps we should have a "red flag" system where too many "red flags" bar one from purchasing a gun or using it without strict monitoring. That having been said, someone who is medicated and has a note from an appropriate professional that they are successfully managing their condition should have such a "red flag" removed.

But the vast majority of the mentally ill are no threat to themselves or others, especially if they get proper treatment. My number one concern in thinking about this question is actually stopping depressed people from getting easy access to firearms for the purposes of suicide. But a suicidal person will find a way no matter what laws we would enact, and the civil liberties costs would be too high. Still, perhaps waiting periods should be extended for people with a history of suicide and no proof of current treatment. This would require better databases, but that is going to be something we need anyways.

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100
1 vote
May 25, 2015

One of the problems is that doctors say they can't always identify which mentally ill person will become violent. You could pass a law saying that anyone who seeks therapy or medication for mental illness cannot own a gun, but what if they already own a gun before they seek treatment? Are you going to confiscate the weapons they already own? What if a soldier returning from war or a hunter feels like he has a mental illness? He might avoid getting treatment because he doesn't want to give up his gun(s). You might say that choosing one's guns over one's mental health is irrational, but what are we talking about here? That's right----mental illness!

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100
User voted No.
1 vote
Oct 13, 2015

I support stronger gun control, but I find this type of classification appalling. Mental illnesses range from schizophrenia and alzheimer's to ADHD and anorexia nervosa. In the future, I would support gun control legislature along this line, but there needs to be much stronger specification in terms of which diseases, as well as regulating along different severities of said diseases.

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-1
1 vote
May 25, 2015

It seems like a good idea, but it will be difficult to determine. Sociopaths can test out normal under most conditions, but they are the most dangerous ones to have a gun. But a law at least preventing some mentally ill people is still better than none at all.

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0
0 votes
May 25, 2015

Define mental illness!

Is it someone who takes antidepressants?
Is it someone who is always depressed?
Is it someone who has Aspergers?
Is it someone who is Autistic?
What about those who have Downs Syndrome? Is that a mental illness?
Maybe only those who are diagnosed as psychotic.
Maybe it's someone who is only dangerously Autistic!
Maybe it's just that weird guy who lives alone at the end of your street!

How do we determine who is merely mentally ill and those who are dangerous? What do we do with those who are dangerous?

We need to have a place for these people to go when they need help and we need to give them help even when they cannot pay for it. Right now, in the US, there few places for people who have money to go when they need mental help, much less for people who do not have the means to pay for treatment. Insurance is no help. Have you looked at your health insurance? How much help will your policy give you if you need mental health treatment? What happens to your health insurance if you are unable to work?

A law that prevents people with mental illnesses from owning guns may be warranted, but with the proliferation of guns in our society, it's not difficult for them to get guns and ammo anyway. What we need is better identification of mental illness and widely available treatment opportunities for people with mental illnesses.

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0
0 votes
May 25, 2015

Why, if they have a known problem that would allow them to consciously go out and kill people, are they not being taken care of PRIOR to their walking into a gun shop and buying guns?

Or is this law designed to make EVERYONE mentally ill enough so that NO one is allowed to purchase weapons?

This law is the same doublespeak that riddles the entire legislature at this time... it allows for nonsense legislation to be passed that can only be interpreted as a bypass of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

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0
0 votes
Jun 15, 2015

I don't think people should really be allowed to buy guns at all, really, it just doesn't seem necessary to me.

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