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User voted Yes.
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1 vote
Oct 12, 2015

There have been over 600,000 applications for asylum seekers into the EU, there is no way to check and see if they are truly fleeing the conflict or if they happen to belong to IS. In the UK we've already seen the government's mishandling of the immigrant problem and that mishandling has led to the rise of UKIP.

When you have a any large group of people who don't share the same values, share the same religion, share the same respect to others, etc as those around them there will be conflict, add to that the inability to check the backgrounds of said people and you're in trouble. All it will take to set off a powder keg of trouble is for ONE person in that group to commit a act of terrorism or another grooming case. Then even those who are trying to be peaceful who are tolerant of others will find themselves in the middle. Then it starts to become a self fulfilling prophecy, those who feel oppressed with fight back, only to be pointed at as why they need to be oppressed even more, the the circle starts.

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0 votes,
Oct 13, 2015

I agree with the conditions you mention that could/will cause conflict, but conflict can on take many forms. So far, the conflict these asylum seekers have "instigated" is the current discussion on this topic (and also expressed fears by natives on unemployment and housing - sometimes culminating in violence, but nothing too serious yet; except for human traffickers which are currently exceedingly hunted down). Please remember that in Europe, we are used to living in (adjacent) areas with a high density population - often consisting of many people who don't share the same values, religion, languages, etc.

I feel like I should point out that in the Netherlands, we take a certain pride in our tradition of debating. For at least a decade (the murder of a famous columnist by a Muslim extremist being an important inducement), our country has given disgruntled individuals representing a minority a platform to express themselves (which might sound illogical), denouncing certain ways of thinking but at least accepting them as human beings (for Dutch standards).

The main difference between the current influx (which in the meantime has admittedly but also understandably increased since the last couple of months) of people and the one(s) before that is nationality; there have been some reports of asylum seekers fighting each other (due to some differences in religion, but I suspect post-traumatic stress could [also] be a factor - these people truly don't want to be in this situation; everyone wants this to be temporary, therefore we have to make it so).

Here (or possibly everywhere), the problems (have) start(ed) when terrorism is organised.

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0 votes,
Oct 13, 2015

But again the problem is you and your government can screen everyone. I'm for immigration, in the US we have more religions that you can shake a stick at, and for the most part we get along. You don't try and force your religion on me and I'll leave you along. But when you don't know who a person is, how can you say your not bring in extremist, who don't want to get along?

Yes I've seen the fighting in the camps, one group against another, was it caused by stress, maybe, but they are basically in a safe area, with food, water, etc being provided. Things might not be moving fast enough for them, but they are basically safe, and yet they fight each other.

So, depending on the local government and what support they provide and the screening they do they may be able to head off trouble, but know governments like I do they will do too little to late and bad thing will happen.

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Oct 14, 2015

From what I've seen and heard, the people who fled to Europe are actually able to recognize amongst themselves (also increasingly by volunteers and visiting politicians) who might be lying "to get in" (this goes for extremists as well as actual fortune seekers who are taking advantage of the situation). For instance, in Syria military service is mandatory, so many (young) men fleeing Syria will have to state that this was their former occupation (which has not been considered a pre so far).

Some of them are/have been lying (according to other asylum seekers) about where they were formerly stationed, so now it comes across as if almost everyone was a cook or a medic while they were in the army. I think this also might be what some of them are fighting about, once they are "safe" (in a country that is strange to them, not to mention cold, and possibly in the company of extremists who might have brought about this ordeal). Judging by paperwork, it makes it admittedly hard to differentiate between Syrians (in this case - of course there are many more nationalities involved).

And many bad things already are happening. Again, there has been some protesting by natives against giving asylum seekers refuge, but this is hardly a realistic option.

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0 votes,
Oct 14, 2015

I'm willing to bet that after the government accepts the asylum seekers, that in a very short time the funds will dry up and the local cities will have to deal with the problems. And odds are the locals will not be so keen on helping them. And when the asylum seekers can't find work and find themselves on the bottom of the economic ladder, who do you think they are going to blame? And once they start blaming whatever country they are in, it won't be long before someone will blow up a bomb, and once that happens it will happen again and again.

I can only hope I'm wrong, but when looking at history and knowing how governments work, I'm more than willing to bet that the trouble in only starting, and unless the government is willing (it won't be) deport anyone who lied, who spouts extremist ideals, they just imported a whole lot of trouble.

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0 votes,
Oct 14, 2015

"But again the problem is you and your government can screen everyone." <- did you mean that they can't?

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User voted Yes.
0 votes,
Nov 15, 2015

Further evidence emerged that at least one of the attackers had traveled through Europe alongside Syrian refugees, seeking asylum in Serbia

And sadly it begins.

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Nov 15, 2015

In this discussion that I've been having with you, you've mentioned several qualities that according to you will be problematic (when faced with a large group of people):
- difference in values
- difference in religion
- difference in respect towards others

Other assumptions:
- an act of terrorism will set off more acts of terrorism (powder keg metaphor)
- immigrants are unidentifiable/indiscernible
- (unspecified) people will feel oppressed (unspecified by what) and will fight back (against unnamed)
- asylum seekers will dry up funds of local cities
- locals will refuse to help them
- asylum seekers will blame their host country for not finding a job
- they will vent this anger by (suicide) bombing

Other main points:
- you are for immigration
- immigration = difference in religion
- difference in religion is not a problem in the US
- difference in religion will be a problem in the EU (e.g. UKIP)
- you know (a) government(s) that will not intervene until it's too late

BREAKING: Police officials: Syrian passport found on body of 1 suicide bomber at Paris stadium. ~The Associated Press I suppose that by now, you've gathered the information that (at least) the majority of the culprits was actually born in Paris/Brussels and/or related to each other (possibly third-generation "foreigners" from Algeria and Morocco - both French speaking countries and historically tightly knit with France - hailing from the same city suburb where the Charlie Hebdo attackers came from, earlier this year), at least one of which was a known extremist (and criminal) since 2010? They've even captured, questioned and released the final suspect of this attack, that they are currently searching for (again).

This is what I meant with my initial post, claiming that Europe will not be in significantly more trouble due to this year's current influx of immigrants.

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User voted Yes.
0 votes,
Nov 16, 2015

As I’ve said it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, the terrorist attack because they are oppressed or were greatly offended, and with each attack they are oppressed or offended more.

Offended by what you ask, maybe the Muhammad cartoons (something that isn’t even in the Qu’ran), oppressed by the ban of face coverings (again not in the Qu’ran). But both are something terrorist can point too, and can say they don’t respect us, they are oppressing us, we must stand up, we must fight oppression, we must fight against their disrespect.

There were 150 raids, how many innocent people are going to get caught up in that? The terrorist will then point to the innocent people and say see the only reason they were detained was because they are muslim we need to strike back.

It is now claimed that at least two jihadis sneaked into Europe through Greece as a refugee. How many others have come through? Like I said you can’t check them all.

We’ve already seen funds drying up in the US for refugees, how long before the fund dry up in other countries or the government tries to push the bill onto the local government?

We know Muslims have a hard time getting work with over 21% of British Muslims having never worked (that figure doesn’t include students) half of Muslim men the three quarters of Muslim women are unemployed. Who do you think they are going to blame, the locals and the government. From there it really isn’t that big of a step to say because of the people, the government, they are oppressing us, they are disrespecting us, we must fight back.

Yes I’m for LEGAL immigration, but immigration doesn’t always equal difference in religion. The reason we in the US don’t have a big problem with religion is that we take YEARS to check out immigrants, and even then we have some, not a lot, of friction in religions. If we had a huge influx of people, who quite frankly don’t want to be here, who want the same laws and customs as back home, then it would be a huge problem.

Government are almost always late when it comes to solving problems, they do little or nothing until the problem I s huge, and generally by then it’s really too late.

Like it said it will only take ONE act, now all we can do is wait and see what happens.

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0 votes,
Nov 16, 2015

I'm starting to take offence at how you seem to ignore anything that would disprove your theory, logic and apparant panic.

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User voted Yes.
0 votes,
Nov 17, 2015

Taking offense for pointing out FACTS? We now have good evidence that at lease two jihadis sneaked into Europe through Greece as a refugee. Or maybe it's the polls you take offense too, or maybe the unemployment facts what part is giving you offense? Or are you taking offense when I ask who's going to get the blame for the unemployment of Muslims? The muslims aren't going to blame themselves are they? So who else can they blame, the local population and the government.

My theory and logic are proving out, we have jihadis sneaking into Europe as refugees. I also have history on my side, when I say Government is almost always late when solving problem, look at the French raids and see what they discovered,ROCKET LAUNCHER and huge cache of weapons in Lyon, do you really think they suddenly discovered them or did the French have them under surveillance and didn't do anything until AFTER the attacks?

And no I'm not in a panic, I'm just telling it as I see it, something most people won't do or say.

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User voted Yes.
0 votes,
Oct 17, 2015

Yes, sorry I'm dyslexic and unless the computer flags a word as misspelled I tend to thing what I was thinking is what I typed. If I go back later and re-read something I typed I can sometime find those errors.

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