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User voted To some extent, but I respect a non-Muslim person more.
3 votes
Apr 22, 2015

No, I look back to 9-11 and I watched millions of Muslims cheering the attacks. I watched as Muslims cheered, while contractors hung from a bridge. They were cheering bombings in Boston. Then I read how Muslims treat Christians, the death sentence for “apostasy” for Meriam Yahia Ibrahim who has also been sentenced to 100 lashes for having sex with her husband. Then I think about systematic torture and brutal executions of Christians and their children in Indonesia. And I think about Salman Rushdie and Lars Vilks, who dared to say or draw about Muslims and Muhammad, death threats and attempts.

Yet, I'm told how peaceful, Islam is, how others have hijacked the religion. But, when I read and see how the Muslim people treat others of differing faiths, how can anyone say the religion was hijacked? Have millions upon millions of Muslims been hijacked? Maybe the people who say Islam is peaceful are just picking and choosing what parts they follow or are blind to their own religion.

Yes, I have read the Qur'an (I have also read the bible both testaments) and Islam is not peaceful. So if you say you're a Muslim, you don't automatically get respect from me. For the record I am an Atheist, which would mean I would face execution under the law in many Muslim countries. But, unlike many others I wouldn't die without a fight and I am willing to kill and be killed then convert.

And yes I KNOW this will get many down votes.

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User voted Yes, I treat a Muslim person just like any other person.
main reply
0 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

How many Christians cheered because of the extrajudicial assassination of Osama?

Or the bombing of Iraqis?

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User voted To some extent, but I respect a non-Muslim person more.
0 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

Well, if Osama hadn't declared war, then you might have a point, but as he did declare war, he declared war twice once in 1996 and again in 1998, and in a war you are allowed to attack your enemy.

And if you had followed the press, you would have know that 64% of Americans had approved of military action against Iraq; however, 63% wanted a diplomatic solution rather than go to war There was also a growing anti-war movement.

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100
User voted Yes, I treat a Muslim person just like any other person.
2 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

How can a non-state actor declare war?

How can a state actor then retaliate against multiple state actors, one of whom was in no way involved and the other simply was the place the guy was allowed to stay?

So 37% DIDN'T want a diplomatic solution. At least 37% of those people were VERY comfortable with listening to Ann Coulter say we should nuke North Korea, just for fun. That's about a hundred million people, Richard, who wanted to bomb a country that had never bombed them, who were at the least misinformed and likely also deeply bigoted, racist, and religiously chauvinist. Coulter has since sold books, appeared on FOX, and has been welcomed when she is an advocate for mass murder. So why the hell doesn't Ann Coulter say anything about every American? Why doesn't Bush? Why doesn't Gary Ridgway, or any other Christian serial killer? Why don't psychos here who call for a new Crusade?

You do know how many Muslims have declared fatwas against the kinds of thingsyou're talking about, right? Muslims hate ISIS. Really: This is a verifiable, empirical fact.

So why the hell is it that the actions of less than .1% of all Muslims tarnish Muslims, but the actions of the entire American military do not tarnish Americans (or Christians in this Christian-majority nation)?

The vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists.

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100
User voted To some extent, but I respect a non-Muslim person more.
1 vote,
Feb 3, 2016

From a survey of 11 countries Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Palestinian Territories, Senegal, Tunisia and Turkey. So it’s safe to say that given the number of countries we can get a good idea of what the average Muslim thinks.

pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns...xtremist-groups/

Al Qaeda 57% of Muslims from this poll had an unfavorable opinion of this group, 13% had a favorable opinion of al Qaeda, let's assuming this poll represents the average Muslim that would mean 195,000,000 have a favorable opinion of al Qaeda in 2013.

Read the survey, and you’ll find a majority of Muslims in some countries think that suicide bombing can be justified if you include rarely, and even if you cut it down to often or sometimes, you still get over 25% of Muslims in some countries that think suicide bombing can be justified. That doesn't mean they would blow themselves up, but they can justify it in their mind.

But let’s go with the lowest numbers, let’s assume that Pakistan is the closest to what Muslims really feel about suicide bombing, which would give us 3% of Muslims who think it often or sometimes justified. That 45 MILLION Muslims who’d think suicide bombing is often or sometimes justified. BTW I only used 1.5 billion instead of your number of 1.6 billion so the numbers would be larger if I used your number. I also have survey number from other western countries and can post them if you wish.

It's polls like that and many others mean I don't automatically respect Muslims, but then again I don't automatically respect Christians, Jew, etc. Are there good Muslims who respect people of other religions, yes, are there bad Christians, yes. But given recent history (the whole draw Muhammad thing, something that isn't in the quran BTW), and polls like this it does make it harder for me to respect a Muslims.

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100
User voted Yes, I treat a Muslim person just like any other person.
1 vote,
Feb 3, 2016

Al Qaeda 57% of Muslims from this poll had an unfavorable opinion of this group, 13% had a favorable opinion of al Qaeda, let's assuming this poll represents the average Muslim that would mean 195,000,000 have a favorable opinion of al Qaeda in 2013.

So the majority of Muslims across many countries condemn a group and a very small minority have a favorable opinion.

How many people vote Republican, even when that party has routinely endorsed war crimes and invaded Muslim countries?

How many people buy Ann Coulter's books?

How many people watch FOX News, despite the fact that it reports things like this?

How many white Americans made the Bell Curve a best seller?

What about the substantial percentage of Americans who will admit that they view blacks as genetically inferior?

Or the literal majority who have an unfavorable view of Islam?

When will you ever play this game honestly?

Read the survey, and you’ll find a majority of Muslims in some countries think that suicide bombing can be justified if you include rarely, and even if you cut it down to often or sometimes, you still get over 25% of Muslims in some countries that think suicide bombing can be justified. That doesn't mean they would blow themselves up, but they can justify it in their mind.

And, as we've already covered, a majority of Americans are willing to support things like torture. No matter the evidence that it doesn't work, no matter the Geneva Convention. So are majority Christian nations pro-torture? I mean, look at the Inquisition and witch trials! I keep asking you to play this game fairly and you never can.

It's polls like that and many others mean I don't automatically respect Muslims, but then again I don't automatically respect Christians, Jew, etc.

That has NOT been your position. Your position has repeatedly stated that Muslim majority countries are predisposed, INTRINSICALLY, to judicial corruption and prejudice, violence, etc. That is by definition biased and you are now backpedaling.

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100
User voted To some extent, but I respect a non-Muslim person more.
1 vote,
Feb 3, 2016

How many people buy Ann Coulter's books? 3 to 4 million on the outside. or as you put it a very small number.

But you're way off the question, which is "Do you respect Muslims?"

Trying to point out that other people may be as bad as Muslims, isn't going to make me respect Muslims any more or less. I don't respect Christians for being Christians, and I also point out to Christians how bad their religion is, and trust me it's as bad as Islam. Same with any religion. You don't get my respect by being Christian, Muslim, Jewish.

" Muslim majority countries are predisposed, INTRINSICALLY, to judicial corruption and prejudice, violence, etc. "

But according to the Quran they are, again have you even read the quran? Kill non-believers, kill gays, kill, kill kill, become Muslim or die. BTW tell them to bring friends I will shoot back, and I said the same thing to my Christian sister. IF yo believe in the Quran or the bible you MUST take the bad with the good. Do I think Muslims for whatever reason are more willing to follow the word of their book, yes. I think Christians are much better at ignoring the word of their book then Muslims are. I also have recent history on my side, do you really want me to go and find point by point how non-Muslims are treated in Muslim countries?

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User voted Yes, I treat a Muslim person just like any other person.
0 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

How many people buy Ann Coulter's books? 3 to 4 million on the outside. or as you put it a very small number.

Then add in the number of appearances she has on TV, and her syndicated column, and her website, and everywhere else, and that number grows massively.

Should we count the number of people who have voted for or sympathized with far-right parties in the West?

Trying to point out that other people may be as bad as Muslims, isn't going to make me respect Muslims any more or less. I don't respect Christians for being Christians, and I also point out to Christians how bad their religion is, and trust me it's as bad as Islam. Same with any religion. You don't get my respect by being Christian, Muslim, Jewish.

Muslims get your DISRESPECT for being Muslim qua Muslim. Christians and Jews don't. That's how bigotry works.

But according to the Quran they are, again have you even read the quran? Kill non-believers, kill gays, kill, kill kill, become Muslim or die.

Have you ever read the Koran? Peace, love, live in harmony with others, jihad is an internal war, etc.

Have you ever read Nasruddin Hodja? He calls out Tamerlane for the brutality of whipping.

Have you ever read the Bible? Genocide, rape, lionizing brutal and corrupt kings, slavery, racism... Even Jesus basically called non-Jews "dogs" when he spoke to the Samaritan woman. (And I like Jesus, a lot!)

It's only when it comes to Muslims that you seem to believe that they are robots who read the Koran and go "Beep boop, oppress women". When it comes to Christians, it's quite obvious that you know that a Quaker is not a Baptist zealot and an Inquisitioner is not the same as our present Pope. THAT'S the bigotry.

Do I think Muslims for whatever reason are more willing to follow the word of their book, yes. I think Christians are much better at ignoring the word of their book then Muslims are. I also have recent history on my side, do you really want me to go and find point by point how non-Muslims are treated in Muslim countries?

Do you want me to go point by point and find out how often Christians committed atrocities? World War II alone is going to trump pretty much everything you're going to cite. That's Germany, Japan and Italy, 2/3 Christian majority and 1/3 Shintoist. Add in Rwanda and you're done with any realistic count.

The only way for you to claim, and it is your CLAIM (and frankly you should not WANT to believe that it is true that Muslims are worse than Christians at doing X, because that claim is almost always going to be racist, colonialist and religiously chauvinistic), would be to find some CONSISTENT metric that you could compare Muslims to non-Muslims, in some rigorous statistical way. You don't. You cherry-pick the things you don't like about Islam and ignore the things that disprove your assertions, while with Christians you are capable of recognizing that they are human and indeed giving them PLENTY of utterly venal excuses (like your apologia for outright fascism). That's bigotry. It is the inability to view Muslims as individuals, Muslim states as individual countries, and Muslim sects as individual Muslim sects. Individual Muslims can be racist, bigoted, terroristic, violent, brutally sexist, etc. Islam intrinsically is not, and you have made an absolutely fraudulent case that it is.

For example: If you were honest, you would compare Muslim countries to non-Muslim countries THAT THEY ARE ANYTHING ALIKE. You wouldn't compare Saudi Arabia to the U.S., you'd compare it to a country in Africa or Asia or Latin America with a similar wealth profile, demographics, etc. You don't and no one does. No one bothers controlling for tiny variables like whether the state in question was recently a colonial state, the wealth of that state, its racial heterogeneity, its level of education, etc.

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User voted To some extent, but I respect a non-Muslim person more.
0 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

How many people buy Ann Coulter's books? 3 to 4 million on the outside. or as you put it a very small number.

You seem to be stuck on Ann Coulter for some reason, but let say that she reaches 50% of American and that they ALL agree with her, that is 150,000,000 still less than the best sample of Muslims who think suicide bombing are at least sometimes justified, and I picked a lower number of Muslims to start with and I picked the country with the lowest number for support.

Yes, I’ve read the Quran, it’s like all religious texts that I’ve read so far is full of conterdictions, so while one part may say peace love etc, there are just as many parts that are fill of kill, enslave, punish.

And yes I’ve read the bible and you missed the best parts, you know kill babies, kill gays, kill non-believers etc. and I like Jesus, he plays a great game of poker, oh not that Jesus.

No I said they are more willing to follow the word and that Christians are better at ignoring the bad parts of the bible.

So you want to compare WWII japan who, attacked the US before they declared war, and you seem to think that it was Christians were doing it. Are you really trying to claim that Christians attacked Japan because they WEREN’T Christians?
Germany was ruled under Hitler, did you forget that you used Hitler, and implied he was a Christian. That wasn’t Christians declaring war on non-Christians, you are confusing religion and nations. Have Christians in the past declared war on Islam, yes, that is Christian vs another religion.

I picked Saudi Arabia, because in general they have been placed as the most tolerant of the Muslim country, but let’s go ahead and look and see how many Christians are arresting Muslims for trying to convert Christians.

It seem you want me all the work, why don’t you back up your claims for one that Christians are arresting Muslim for trying to convert Christians, etc. I’ll wait.

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User voted To some extent, but I respect a non-Muslim person more.
0 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

Let me ask you this would you rather be a Muslin living in the US or a Christian living in Egypt?

Now before you answer remember that in the US you can hand out the Quran, you can ask people to covert and as long as you're not on private property, you are free to do so, but in Egypt you can go to jail for handing out bibles. In many other Muslim countries you can go to jail and in Brunei makes apostasy a crime punishable with death, as does Afghanistan, Iran and many more and even in Muslims countries that don't have law on the book people have been sent to jail for trying to convert or converted to another religion.

So tell which do you want a Muslim in the US or a Christian in Egypt?

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User voted Yes, I treat a Muslim person just like any other person.
0 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

Osama Bin Laden orchestrated the murder of almost 3000 people, all innocent civilians.

I believe there is a very big difference between applauding the death of Osama Bin Laden and doing the same for the death of 2996 innocent people.

Could you show us strong evidence of Christians expressing their joy after witnessing the death of civilian muslims during the Iraq war?

This topic more about respecting (or not respecting) Muslims and a little less about Christians. I believe there's a possibility of going slightly off-topic here, so I have made this topic: "Do you respect Christians?". Of course, everyone is still free to share their opinions on Christianity in both topics as it is obvious both religions are often found in the same sentences whenever there are debates surrounding them.

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User voted Yes, I treat a Muslim person just like any other person.
0 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

And George W. Bush orchestrated the murder of hundreds of thousands of people, almost all innocent civilians. Is it legal or acceptable to assassinate him?

How about I do you one better: How about Ann Coulter saying, "I'm getting a little fed up with hearing about, oh, civilian casualties. I think we ought to nuke North Korea right now just to give the rest of the world a warning". How many conservatives condemned her for that? How many cheered?

The point is the hypocrisy. No one condemns any group but Muslims this way.

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User voted Yes, I treat a Muslim person just like any other person.
3 votes,
Feb 3, 2016

The difference between Osama Bin Laden and George W. Bush is that Bin Laden, initially, specifically planned to harm civilians whilst Bush, once again initially, planned to send his army against another.

When Bin Laden chose to execute his plan, did he know civilians would be the prime victims of this attack? The answer is yes.

What was Bush's ultimate goal, on the other hand? Do you truly believe he was planning to murder "hundreds of thousands of people, all innocent civilians"? Was it part of his plan? I do believe he was one of the worst, if not the worst President of the United States, and yet, I don't think so.

Intent shouldn't be forgotten when there are comparisons to be made between both men, now that's for sure.

"The point is the hypocrisy. No one condemns any group but Muslims this way."

Proportionally and statistically speaking, I'd guess that Jews probably are still on top of the list after numerous decades. And maybe you could throw in Americans in there are well. After all, those who refuse to see a Muslim connection in the Islamic extremist-led unrest of the vast majority of countries with high Muslim populations will usually, and sometimes even solely blame the actions of America and Israel.

There is also another form of hypocrisy, I think. It comes from those who try to believe - and make us believe at the same time - that being the most powerful man in the world, being President of the United States of America, is an easy job, or at least a job where mistakes and failures are not possible. In their hypocrisy, they will try to convince us and themselves that some other person or country could've done it better, but the reality is that they have no idea.

But once again, maybe we're going a little off-topic here, as the question is about Muslims and respecting them.

Personally, I do respect Muslims in general. I don't believe in any religion, but I respect their right to follow whatever they believe in. One thing, however, is that integration is very dear to me. If one person says the laws and teachings in his holy book are more important than my state's laws, traditions, etc. - things me and my ancestors have preserved for centuries - it is, to me, proof that this person doesn't want to adapt. And if that person chooses to openly challenge our way of living by using my country's openness against itself in order to have his book's laws and teachings prevail over everything else, this person will definitely lose my respect, because my country's past values have made it the country it is now and these values are very dear to me.

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Load more (4) in reply to Fred BC's post (And George W. Bush orchestrated the murder of hundreds of thousands of people, almost all innocent civilians. Is it legal or acceptable to assassinate him? How about I do you one better: How about Ann...)
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