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100
4 votes
May 18, 2015

I like to think of governments as an agency from the platonic realms ruled by incorruptible selfless beings with term limits who look out for all life on earth.

Unfortunately, governments need money. There are only two ways to get it. Taxes and Inflation (increase in money supply). The banks won't honor money that loses value (because of increasing supply) unless they get a share of the newly created money. Without governments sharing newly created money with the banks, the banks won't just honor money as a payment for debt.

Since weapons manufacturers need the banks to honor money, governments can't force the banks to accept money that loses value, because governments need weapons to create credible threats to the banks to honor money in the first place.

As long as banks get newly created money for cheap, they will offer it to new politicians they like so that once they get elected, they will help the banks out.

I like to think of lobbying as a secret meeting around a round table at night. Or a late night knock on the door at a senator's house.

Most lobbying needn't be done. It happens without being said. Powerful people are aware of what they need, and align themselves so that they can empower each other while benefiting themselves.

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100
2 votes
May 18, 2015

Democracy by popular definition is majority vote wins. This has been corrupted/corroded however you want to say because in the majority of time most politicians either ignore or don't utilize fact based studies but end up trading elections for sponsors. This isn't democracy this is greed especially in the United States where our founding fathers had designated certain rules for such. While it may be true that unions are getting out of control we're stuck in between two evils both unnecessary however good will they may be. Politics in this day and age is solely determined by who has the best Charisma versus intelligence and ethics. This is further proven by the fact that we're still using a two party system. Observe debates how many were brought to a national debate? Just Obama and Romney.

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100
1 vote
May 18, 2015

I am much more concerned about the Union political power where they can keep people from working when they want because you don't want to pay them tribute.

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100
main reply
1 vote,
May 18, 2015

I do not understand how it could be argued that unions have more political power than large corporations. Perhaps this was true 40 years ago.

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0
0 votes,
May 18, 2015
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0
0 votes,
May 18, 2015

Did you actually read the OpenSecrets page you linked? For one thing, the intro specifically says it does NOT include individual wealthy contributors. But anyway, six of the top 10 donor organizations they list are unions (not all 10 as you said). The other four are ActBlue, the National Association of Realtors, AT&T, and Goldman Sachs.

It makes sense that the six unions, ActBlue and the Realtors are in the top ten. They each represent millions of members. The stand-outs are AT&T and Goldman Sachs -- two corporate boards of directors, throwing money at political campaigns at the same rate as millions of individuals. This is an excellent illustration of why people have a point when they say corporate money has too much influence on American politics.

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0
0 votes,
May 18, 2015

Union have stopped representing there members a long time ago they are as corrupt as those in DC. Just look at Yellow freight union bailed about by Obama with millions of your tax dollars.

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-2
2 votes,
May 18, 2015

So, basically just the usual unsubstantiated anti-union bwaaaah. This might as well be /r/politics on reddit.

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0
0 votes,
May 18, 2015

I was a union member I see what has happened my friend don't try to tell me there out there working hard for the worker, when a person who lives in Chicago owns his own business is a union member, but must pay them 500 a month to operate his own equipment that is just BS from the unions and I have watched those who have been arrested for take the members money and using it for themselves. So no its fact I have seen in even some of this in charge of my union are now on probation and in jail. Facts Son Facts.

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50
2 votes
May 18, 2015

Big business has always been a part of a capitalist economy. Its just some of the hurdles that we have to leap over to keep such a system

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0
main reply
0 votes,
May 18, 2015

Why do we need to keep a capitalistic system?

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0
0 votes
May 18, 2015

Corporations have no political power. the people you vote for have that. If the people you vote for are taking bribes ,,ummmm campaign contributions,,, and giving corporations power then for gawds sake stop voting for them.

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0
main reply
0 votes,
May 18, 2015

For people that live in the US, there are by and large no such people to vote for.

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0
0 votes,
May 18, 2015

that is because we continue to reward the behavior. bf skinner classic conditioning. replace the reward with a consequence and the behavior will change

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100
1 vote,
May 18, 2015

But it's a catch-22. The only way we can punish politicians with corporate ties is to not vote for them. If all the politicians have corporate ties, all we can do is not vote. The people that do vote will give it to one of them anyway.

Besides, corporations have gotten very, very good at manipulating public opinion in favour of things that are bad for everyone but the corporations. That ability to sway opinion is the true power. We can wish all we like that people will actually start voting in their own self-interest, but without attacking corporate power directly this is difficult to do.

Also, even if they don't take bribes, a politician can still be heavily influenced by the powers of a corporation. For instance a company can threaten to shut down a large factory or move it somewhere else if politicians try to pass laws regulating that factory. This loss of jobs would make that politician very unpopular with his electorate, and so he is held hostage.

The fact of the matter is that corporations have gotten incredibly powerful in the modern world.

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0
0 votes,
May 18, 2015

  • first of all I would like to state that it looks like we agree there is a serious issue with the government we currently vote for and that is a good thing. I am encouraged by this view in the populace and am hopeful that eventually when we stop quibbling over a letter behind a name (not that you and I are which is very cool) and realize that there is a systemic problem that needs to be pulled out by the root things will turn around.
  • regarding your response, you are acknowledging that the worst candidates are most likely to win. That is true by and large. So, why would you believe that they worst candidates would make laws easier for them to lose? the truth is the bill is actually an incumbency protection act that they do not need. They are so threatened by a minuscule movement to throw the bums out they are introducing this garbage and wrapping it with the big bow of "we are fighting for you". They are not.
  • My view is that until more people like yourself wake up and realize that we can fix this. First, lets vote in some people that do not take this money. People with a core. Then I would feel more comfortable with rules being made about how to stop this from happening again. By having Reid, McConnell, Beignor and Pelosi be in charge it is akin to letting the fox guard the hen house.
  • Great discussion. I am encouraged that their are people that realize their is an issue and it must be addressed instead of arguing over labels or wings.
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