67
3 votes
Aug 15, 2015

"race" is an antiquated idea from the 17C that should not be used in this context. Instead, ethnicity, or even demographic is a more relevent term.

I can not talk from an American perspective, but in Australia Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islanders (our native peoples) have reduced requirements for school and university entry. I think this is an important step is righting some past wrongs and breaking some vicious cycles which once broken benefit not only their communities but society in large.

When European colonists came to Australia, they changed the fabric of Aboriginal society. Many Aboriginies found it difficult to adapt to these drastic changes, and with the introduction of alcohol the effect on their society and culture were devestating, much of which is pronounced to this day. Granting more Aboriginal students access to higher education does much to break cycles of abuse which have held them back as a community. This also provides role models for the next generation, and so has a cumulative and positive effect.

Some may argue that this is 'white guilt', and that is arguable to an extent, but semantic arguments rarely solve problems; education has historically been far better at this.

I believe America has a similar history with native Americans, and i believe it is just as important there to improve communal esteem in those populations. Although i havn't read the external link, and am otherwise uninformed of the situation, the inability to determine ethnicity may negatively effect those who need it most.

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0
main reply
0 votes,
Aug 15, 2015

In America, affirmative action isn't really targeted at Native American students at all, and they're probably barely affected by AA because of their tiny numbers and their very low college enrollment. It's aimed at black students primarily.

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-1
1 vote,
Aug 15, 2015

From my knowledge of American society, many black communities would benefit from more lawyers, doctors, business managers, and role models. I'm not suggesting white communities don't deserve representation at universities, but as a utilitarian i can see greater benefit to society as a whole in offering easier paths to education to those who have historically been repressed to these benefits.

It's a tricky situation, i don't believe black people (or Aborigibies or natice Americans or white folks Latinos or anyone for that matter) inheritly need assistance getting into educational institutions, but my opinion is that if the choice is between a black kid from the projects who never knew her father and whos mother is a junkie, and a white kid whos father owns a successful consulting firm and whos mother runs a small local chain of florists, i would favour the black kid for the spot. If the white kid is from a trailer park and his parents are methheads, and the black kids two mums are in advertising and law, i would want the spot to the white kid.

Of course, that is so long as the less fortunate in the example has shown that an education is what they want, and that they are willing to work for it. If they are waiting for or expecting a handout then my argument is invalid.

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100
linked reply
1 vote,
Aug 15, 2015

What about poor white people? Don't you think poor white communities in Appalachia could benefit from more doctors and other role models? Why are poor black communities more deserving of poor white communities? Anyone who wants to treat these groups differently is a racist, by definition.

You even mention this with your comment about the white kid from the trailer part. But Affirmative Action doesn't allow this distinction. Under AA, the black kid that lives a life of privilege with wealthy parents will get priority over the poor white kid who lives in a dilapidated trailer and has holes in his shoes. And that's wrong, and why race-based admissions should be banned.

If they want to make parental wealth a factor in admissions, that's fine with me.

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0
0 votes,
Aug 15, 2015

In Australia, Aboriginies and Torres Strait Islanders get roughly 10 marks off their university entry requirements, and significant discounts to their fees. We have a HECS program that allows you to learn now, pay later, but if your parental earnings are too significant you become ineligable. It has been a pretty good system.

I gave my opinion based on the proposed question, not the external link (i'm new here, sorry if that is not the general convention). To my knowledge, affirmative action is a terrible idea, to an outsider it seems to suggest that the official stance is that black people can't get jobs without the valiant grace of ever generous whitey, although, i can also see it preventing racism in the hiring process which i am sure occurs in some cases. It's a double edge sword that I'm glad my country has managed to avoid (although, we have plenty of other issues to keep us occupied)

In my original post, i mentioned that perhaps demographic is a better term, after this dialogue i am now more convinced that demographic is more appropriate, ethnicity should still apply with native Americans, although i understand their plight less than the Aboriginies, and so i could be misjudging that.

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0
0 votes,
Aug 15, 2015

The Native Americans in this country are a very, very small minority, so their plight is probably rather different than the Aborigines. The NAs also are doing a little better these days thanks to the proliferation of casinos on their reservations; they're really profiting a lot from those. If they had Affirmative Action policies which only favored NAs, I doubt too many people would complain that much, because the numbers are just so small that you won't have many instances of someone complaining they were denied admission because of a Native American.

I think you're basically right about affirmative action's problems.

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0
User voted No.
0 votes,
Aug 15, 2015

NA on reservation have Tribal Employment Rights Ordinance (TERO) where NA get first crack at the jobs, plus if you have two people going to the same job and they are qualified for the job and one is NA and the other isn't the job MUST go to the NA . Which is why you have to state the experience, and all job duties when you post a job opening the reservations. If don't list everything and a NA meets what you posted you must hire them.

This is all legal under current law.

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100
1 vote,
Aug 15, 2015

Love you liberals when it comes to race. Fact there are more poor whites than poor blacks or Poor Latino in America. Race should never be a factor in anything we do. I have worked in places where equal race facts who applied (affirmative action) what you end up with is those in charge to be incompetent. A general reduction in the effectiveness of the organization and its effect in the community. To say you have to have special treatment indicates your to stupid to make it on your own.

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