100
1 vote
May 21, 2016

No "politically correct" isn't correct, all it does is stifle conversations, conversations that we NEED to have. PC is used almost exclusive to prevent speech, generally but not always from white people. Is some of that speech uncomfortable? Yes, but is stopping said speech worst? I would contend, yes. Preventing someone from freely speaking their mind is far worst than said speech.

Being PC means you shut people up by calling them a racist, a homophobic, or whatever, FORCE them not say that "word". Gay, Queer, N* gger, etc. don't let them EVER say that word. Don't ever allow them to speak. Of course you won't change their mind and will just re-enforce their views. Especially if you ask is minority person X held to the SAME standard.

Having someone say what's really on their mind, and using reason to show how they are wrong, is far better than censoring their speech. When you censor people all you do then is drive them underground. You GIVE them power, "They don't want me to tell you this because it's not PC, but it's the truth." How do you counter that, you can't because you can't hold their speech up to the light of day. You can't counter what's not being said in public.

Michael Richards called two black hecklers the "n-word", was he provoked, yes should he have responded, probably not, after all it's probably wasn't the first time he was heckled, but what fallout did the hecklers receive none, but Richards career is virtually destroyed. While this was happening the hecklers didn't just want an apology, they wanted compensation too.

Now compare that to pass that given to Al Sharpton and his comments. “White folks was in the caves while we was building empires.“We built pyramids before Donald Trump even knew what architecture was…We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it…" "Do some cracker come and tell you, ‘Well my mother and father blood go back to the Mayflower,’ you better hold your pocket. That ain’t nothing to be proud of, that means their forefathers was crooks.”

Now imagine any white person saying all blacks are crooks, what would be the fallout?

If we're going to be PC and not say the N-word, then we shouldn't allow the use of "White boy," "Cracker," "Honkey," "Whitey," "Caveman" etc. See it so easy to be offended, that soon you wouldn't be able to say anything negative about anyone or any groups true or not.

Remember if screaming "white power" is a racist statement doesn't that make screaming "black power" (after all some in the black power movement have said that black need to kill whitey) also a racist statement and if we're going to be PC should they BOTH be silenced?

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100
main reply
1 vote,
May 22, 2016

My quick and short response to this is that in my view political correctness should not serve to stifle conversations. I would think that rather words like "cracker" and "honkey" (to name a few) shut people up (especially the ones who are addressed by it). "Being PC" [ideally] would mean that instead of resorting to one-word generalisations of a (for example) racist kind, the conversation is kept alive by disregarding these one-word shortcuts or at least explaining what or why you think by the grace of these negatively laden words. While writing this, it occurs to me that opponents of political correctness might have a problem with that their - arguably derigatory - words (how else are we supposed to interpret them) are publicly considered to be negative.

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

But, that's what it being used for, it not as the PC crowd like to put being nice to each other, it's being used to shut people up. But even if the word is derogatory, or load so what, take illegal alien, sorry the PC word is undocumented migrant, I chose the use illegal alien, it's the proper term even if it loaded or derogatory, but as soon as I say illegal alien, I'm branded a racist, they won't here why I use the proper term, or why I object to the term undocumented migrant. So why should I listen to the other side if all they want to do is scream that I'm a racist? Why should I listen to their point of view when they won't listen to mine? So the PC crowd is using PC to stop conversations.

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

So that would mean that Political Correctness (I refuse to abbreviate the term because I'll end up lazily using it as most people would) is used incorrectly/by extremes. That doesn't make it in itself a wrong phenomenon.

I do agree that "alien" is a proper (albeit confusing <- because UFO's) term. So "illegal alien" translates into "undocumented migrant", correct? While I wouldn't think the first term is politically incorrect, I would think that the second term implies a more problemsolving connotation to the word. Like: "they aren't documented... indefinitely." The word "illegal" puts more emphasis on them being on the 'wrong side' of the law (end of sentence - no retry).

That said, your disenchantment with political correctness is understandable to me. Moreover, being called a racist for calling someone an illegal alien is pretty nonsensical, as the term merely indicates a legal status; regardless of any heritage or origin whatsoever.

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100
1 vote,
May 22, 2016

"So "illegal alien" translates into "undocumented migrant""

No Illegal alien does not translate into undocumented migrant. A migrant is a person who moves regularly in order to find work. Undocumented means they don't have the proper work permits or do not have said documents on their person. If a person claims to have the proper paper work but doesn't have it on their person, you could rightly claim that person is an undocumented migrant. Illegal alien is a foreign person who lives in a country without having official permission to live there. There is a huge difference between people moving around to find work and people who are illegally living here.

If you think about it the Political Correctness crowd wants to muddy the water by combining three groups, migrants, illegal migrants, illegal aliens. Migrants are documented workers who will stay in the country for a limited amount of time to work. Illegal migrants are in the country illegally, but who stay for a limited amount of time to work. Illegal alien is a person who is in the country illegally and has taken up residency in the country, and may work illegally.

I have a problem with both illegal aliens and illegal migrants, I have no problem if a person is following the LAW, either to work or immigrate into this country. But like I said as soon as I try and use the proper terms, the Political Correctness crowd, shouts RACIST, and try to shut me down.

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

Okay, I honestly was under the impression the two were the same. Thanks for explaning.

And about the Political Correctness crowd: anything can be taken to extremes, even political correctness. I think people should not have to be taken to places that they aren't comfortable with; like straining to have a proper discussion when the content should exceed the form. Seeing it from your side, maybe it would help to think that in a (for you annoying) way people are showing that they care.

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

Well, the politically correctness crowd, says they care, but in many cases that's where it ends. I refuse to let people use this term, therefore I care. Not that they will do anything to solve the problems, but at least they say they care.

And people should be taken places they aren't comfortable with, that's part of the discussion. Politically correct or not, if you tell me don't use the term, you should be able to tell why I shouldn't use it.

It's the uncomfortable discussion where problems get solved, not the pat on the back one's where everyone agrees they care. To make this less loaded, take the drug problem, we could just call the drug dealers, undocumented pharmacist, and say that all they really just want to build a business for themselves. Well that's nice, we don't have drug dealers anymore and all we need to do is give not enforce the law, or should we have that uncomfortable discussion, about how to solve the drug problem with treatment and many legalize some drugs, and maybe allowing addicts a place to shoot up, that is a safe place with maybe medical help standing by, and give them clean needles so we lessen the dangers while we try and get them into treatment to end their addiction, while at the same time stopping those who are selling drugs illegally.

Those are the kind of thing the being politically correct stops, we can't talk about this or that because it not politically correct to say we need to jail drug dealers, because it hits minorities harder than whites. Or from the other side that we encourage drug use by allowing (another non-politically correct word) junkies to shoot up. But if we allow people to use the term junkie and show them it's really an addiction, which they may be predisposed too, and that many addicts want to be clean but need help, and that it will be cheaper in the long run to give them clean safe places to use drugs. Or maybe we need to give job training to dealers and show them in the long run they make more money doing a legal job the dealing.

Or we could be politically correct and tell the person who used the term junkie, that they don't know what they are talking about and need to shut up. While the other side says nothing except to like minded people and vote not to fund a program that would save many lives and money. And the political correct crowd end up with no programs and making the lives of many minorities even worst but no enforcing the law, even if more minorities end up in jail for illegal activity. In the end being politically correct, means everyone loses.

And of course this is only my opinion, right, wrong or otherwise. (it's been a long time since I've use that tag line. I'm thinking about bringing it back.)

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

"And people should be taken places they aren't comfortable with, that's part of the discussion." <- I somewhat expected to get in trouble for that remark

When I wrote it, I was envisioning two people going at extreme lengths to change each other no matter what, when in your case it seems that part of the annoyance you experience with extreme political correctness is the possibility that people are trying to fundamentally change eachother. Not only each other's viewpoints, but also the words they use for it to communicate about.

If someone would try to discuss with me, but exclusively on their terms (which is the impression I am getting from your story) I would not strain myself to make a point.

Back on topic: I generally think that in some cases people need to deal with negativity. To use your example, if people would respond to you mentioning drug dealers and claim that this is a foul word, you could honestly say: "but that's exactly what they do: drug dealers deal drugs - and yes considering the addictive nature of the product, it is legitimately a bad thing."

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

I used drug dealer to avoid this becoming an illegal alien discussion, perhaps it was a bad analogy on my part, if so I apologize. The point I was trying to make was that by trying to force people to be politically correct, they are either trying to muddy the water that is obscure the real issues, or are missing what's really important. But in either case forcing people to be politically correct, is in effect turning the subject from the real issue, and turning into a "you're a bad person" issue.

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

"...turning the subject from the real issue, and turning into a 'you're a bad person' issue."

That's actually how I usually experience any encounter with you.

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

Really, I tell why you think that, I try to put out my point of view, and while I don't agree with everyone, I do want to hear them out.

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

Also it's because you like to tell me why I think things. And then probably expect me to agree with you. Or not. Either way. In a discussion which actually isn't a discussion - more like me agreeing with you the whole time. But apparently by still using the wrong words and sentences according to you. Who is claiming that forcing political correctness is a way of turning away from the real issue.

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0
0 votes,
May 22, 2016

I repeat back what I think a person means, it's a way to make sure I understand someones position. I would expect that if I'm wrong they would tell me. I don't expect you to agree or disagree with me your opinion is yours , sorry if you feel that you need to agree with me.

And yes I try to convince my point of view is correct, I also expect people to try on convince me that their point of view is correct. I have changed my mind on subjects because someone convinced me I was wrong.

I think I made myself clear that my position on being political correct is a way to turn people away from the real issue. If you think I'm mistaken tell me why. That's part of the discussion, just like saying we need to use this term, and tell me why my term doesn't fit. Yes, I may fight your use of a term, and you may fight my use of another term, but that's part of the discussion, like undocumented migrant, or undocumented worker (which is apparently the new political correct term) where I use illegal alien, I feel that term fit better, while some people claim that it put too much on illegal (there's no such thing as an illegal person) so undocumented fits better. I feel illegal fits better as the person is committing an illegal act by staying in the country.

If you think I'm wrong convince me, even if we agree to disagree, it's still progress.

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